Online Sim Racing netKar PRO


    "The Alien" on nKPRO

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    Olivier Prenten
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Olivier Prenten on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:25 pm

    I do strongly believe iRacing is too expansive! They should review their price rates!
    That's one of the reasons why nKPro is unbeatable in many domains!
    "Long life to nKPro!"

    Steve Crawnshaw
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Steve Crawnshaw on Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:08 pm

    M Waechter wrote:
    Stuart Whitehead wrote:
    M Waechter wrote:
    In some cases 25$ just for one new track is hillarious... .

    In no case are any tracks $25

    Tracks are maximum of $14.99 and quite frankly they are worth every penny. I would happily pay that (the price of three pints of beer!) for laser scanned tracks with the quality of textures iRacing have if they were available for netKar Pro


    As M Carey said some of them are indeed such expensive (25$).

    Nevertheless I have to admit I joned IRacing two days ago though I don't really have the money to buy that much of additional content..., but at least I just had to try this sim also, I could not resist to test it out ... Wink.
    I subscribed for one year (I chose the package were the FW31 + two additional tracks are still included).
    -So, if someone would like add me as a there so called 'friend' be welcome to do so, because so far I have no 'firiends' there.

    I did three races in the Mazda Roadster so far -went out not too bad... . It is quite fun, because with the sim it turns always out in close battles (for the fixed setup races).
    But what I miss there is the feeling of common racing, 'cause there is no liga or something similar like here at Radiators Springs -I miss a bit this common 'liga-feeling' there.
    Mainly in iRacing you are drivng quite 'all alone' Crying or Very sad Smile Wink just against thousands of other people.. Surprised .

    But it is also ok anyway, because the driving is great (it feels maybe a bit more real than NKPro). Cars look really great and are all fine detailed and sharp (realistic), tracks are well done: nice sharp textures no such sort of 'unrealistic' effect-stuff of any kind.., sunshine in the cockpit and so on Wink. Overall it might be also a bit less frustrating, because the cars are a bit more reliable and controlable, but I don't know if the physics are better in absolutely any situation:
    I guess when it comes to losing a F1 car on a curb (like Mika Hakkinen 1999, Lewis Hamilton 2009 in Monza or Mark Webber in the rain of the Korea-race) when on throttle then maybe NKPro does a better job... Very Happy.


    Here's a helpful tip about iracing. If you start to go into a spin, turn INTO the spin the straighten out the wheel really quick. That will save it. Weird hey?

    M Waechter
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Waechter on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:25 am

    Steve Crawnshaw wrote:Here's a helpful tip about iracing. If you start to go into a spin, turn INTO the spin the straighten out the wheel really quick. That will save it. Weird hey?

    -just joking a little bit, so don't take it too serious: ('cause what Stuart W. wrote below this post about the induced understeer maybe right of course..)
    hehe, lol Suspect - Maybe this way you are / can 'foxing' out iRacing's physics: I guess the game 'thinks' once when you steer into the spin direction that it is some kind of a normal cornering... and no unusal slide or anything like this anymore then... Very Happy .


    Last edited by M Waechter on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Stuart Whitehead
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Stuart Whitehead on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:34 am

    Steve Crawnshaw wrote:
    Here's a helpful tip about iracing. If you start to go into a spin, turn INTO the spin the straighten out the wheel really quick. That will save it. Weird hey?

    Not really that weird. Induced understeer to get out of a spin can work in real life, and used to work in netKar Pro as well. I haven't even tried it it netKar for ages so I dont know if it still does. Still, theres absolutely no need to try it in iRacing as the conventional countersteering method works just fine Wink I've never used induced understeer to correct a slide in iRacing, and have no problem at all catching spins.

    Your previous post shows you are just one of the many with an irrational dislike of iRacing, so why even bother commenting? I don't see you listing netKars many faults anywhere. Wink

    Lets not drag this thread down into a predictable iRacing bashing session. It's a top quality sim that is far from perfect, just like netKar. Thousands of people feel they get very good value for money with iRacing. If you dont like it or dont want to pay for it then thats fair enough, but there's no need to senselessly bash it because you don't want to use it.

    netKar is ridiculously cheap fro the entertainment it's provided over the years, no doubt about it.

    The 42p a day iRacing has cost me for 20 months subs and all the road content (and I did it the expensive way- 3 monthly subs and never more than 3 bits of content at a time) still represents excellent value for the quality of service they provide as well though.

    If netKar had hundreds of top quality servers with full grids 24/7 of clean racing, netcode the quality of iRacings and laser scanned tracks I'd give up iRacing immediately. It's never going to happen though Smile

    You ultimately get what you pay for. Just think what netKar would be like by now if simmers were prepared to spend a few pence per day on their hobby....

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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by henrizio on Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:56 am

    Stuart Whitehead wrote:Tracks are maximum of $14.99 and quite frankly they are worth every penny. I would happily pay that (the price of three pints of beer!) for laser scanned tracks with the quality of textures iRacing have if they were available for netKar Pro

    ^ +1

    I've played iRacing just 2 weeks now. Only basic pack but tracks are amazing.

    First I was very suspicious is it worth of anything, but after those awful rookie mazda races driving quality is much higher. It's worth to try for anyone who likes sim racing.

    iRacing is very good for serious sim racing and only thing I'm missing is the fun side. Nothing like LFS where you can race all kinds of combos with friends. Short sprints and you can take a restart if there is a crash in T1. Sure you can PAY for hosted events in iRacing but thats not the same. All fun races I had in LFS would cost... very much.

    In netkar I don't like this current track converting mania where you soon need all simbin games to install tracks. Netkar is just too small community for this. Soon there is much more tracks than users. That was one of many things I hated about rfactor and don't like to see it in netkar too. For me 1 good track is better than 1000 average.

    M Waechter
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Waechter on Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:55 am

    basically I agree.. : I'm also a person who don't want to see too much of those 'overtuned' track conversions. Overall they are great of course, but too much tweaking is also a bit unrealistic (I don't need shrill texture colors like they especially appear on some new -not all !, most are realistic- textures in the new tracks, I want realistic colors.. . But NetKar was always a bit more kind of colorful, because of general higher color-saturation, which looks nice but appears not really as that 100% real, -this point iRacing takes more care of.)

    I think the peak amount of track conversions in NkPro has already arrived, overall after that we should focus on quality again, using only the best tracks for championship races.. and maybe some of the also good old great and kind of realistic + clean looking original NkPro tracks again... .
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    M Carey
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Carey on Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:49 am

    Stuart Whitehead wrote:The 42p a day iRacing has cost me for 20 months subs and all the road content (and I did it the expensive way- 3 monthly subs and never more than 3 bits of content at a time) still represents excellent value for the quality of service they provide as well though.
    That sounds awful to me Smile That's a games console + whatever titles you want, or a racing wheel + whatever sim' you choose (obviously other than iR). iRacing ask for some of the hostility when they're claiming to be best. It may well be in the future, but it isn't there yet. I just find it sad that nKPro isn't sustainable, and all the other big names who used to make half-decent games now put out arcadey crap. It looks like in the not too distant future I'm gonna be priced out of my hobby, then they'll be no distraction from the mind numbing reality that's everyday life Very Happy
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    laurent resende
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by laurent resende on Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:12 am

    courage Marius la 1.3 arrive, nous verrons bien si il y progression, de toutes façon NetKar est à un tournant, il faut lui laisser sa chance, de plus ses moyens financier ne sont pas les memes que IRacing, l'important est que Netkar dans son évolution soit dans la bonne direction._____________Marius courage the 1.3 arrives, we'll see if there up anyway NetKar is at a crossroads, we must give him a chance, most of its financial resources are not the same as iRacing, the important thing is that in Netkar its evolution is in the right direction.
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    Stuart Whitehead
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Stuart Whitehead on Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:29 am

    M Carey wrote: iRacing ask for some of the hostility when they're claiming to be best. It may well be in the future, but it isn't there yet

    Is it not? Please point me in the direction of the sim that provides the quality of content, the 24/7 full servers and the complete online racing environment that's better than iRacing's then. The only other sim that has physics worth talking about is nKPro and I have that.

    M Carey wrote: I just find it sad that nKPro isn't sustainable, and all the other big names who used to make half-decent games now put out arcadey crap. It looks like in the not too distant future I'm gonna be priced out of my hobby

    The thing is, sim racing is such a small market that without some sort of regular payment no decent sim (and lets face it..there's only 2 possibly 3 decent sims out there) will be sustainable whilst continuing to churn out good regular content and updates Unless sim racers are prepared to actually pay for their hobby (shock horror!) then they can't moan when their hobby dies.

    If you call 42p a day (or more like 25p a day if you do things sensibly) pricing you out of your hobby then you're not really that into your hobby in the first place.

    If the theoretical netKar Pro 2 decided to have some sort of subscription based model to fund it and would guarantee regular updates and content for,lets say, 1/3 of what iRacing costs would you not be interested?

    The problem here is not the so called high pricing of iRacing (always makes me laugh that one... I'm unemployed yet have no problem finding less than 50p per day to fund my hobby) It's the small sim racing community that want everything for free.

    If a small monthly fee would provide Kunos the ability to deliver 5 new cars per year, 5 new tracks per year of the quality of Aosta, regular physics updates and employ someone to fix the damn netcode once and for all I'd have my credit card out instantly.
    By the time the, Shelby (?) Osella and hillclimb track are out it will be nearly 4 years since netKar Pro launched. In that time we will have had 2 new (official) tracks, 3 new cars, still have horribly unpredictable netcode and still have rubbish server controls. Hardly a lot of progress in nearly 4 years is it?

    I hope now that Kunos seems to have rebuilt his reputation in the sim racing community and netKar seems to have had a bit of a revival that he will make sure that the follow up project will be financially sustainable to provide the regular quality updates that could make the new netKar the sim of choice for a lot more people. If that means monthly subs then i'm all for it. The cheapskates that aren't prepared to support their hobby will be no loss to the community. I hope they'll all be happy playing their mass market arcade crap.


    Just a reminder of what Kunos himself said
    "Question: Apart from satisfying you personally, is that also enough to sustain the company?

    Sadly at this stage no,
    so we are forced to do other projects. It is funny sometimes we get
    hammered on the forums because we "waste" our time to do other things
    instead of netKar PRO but

    the sad truth is that
    without these "other things" Kunos Simulazioni would be long gone. I'd
    love to see netKar PRO becoming our one and only activity
    but as it stands right now it is not happening."

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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by paul thomas on Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:52 pm

    Here here!!!
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    laurent resende
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by laurent resende on Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:54 pm

    french:D'accord avec toi Stuart, le mécenat ne paye pas le salaire des employés, ni les frais de maintenance d'une entreprise, la progression de NetKar ne peut donc etre évolutive à court Terme , et quand elle survient le temps de retard sur les autres sera toujours présent.
    Nul doute que c'est le coté passionné de l'équipe Kunos qui fait "progresser" NetKar, mais c'est comme le dit l'article publié sur RaceDepartment ,c'est bien souvent à la maison le dimanche ou pendant les vacances que l'équipe travaille sur les évolutions de NetKar,
    beaucoup de passionnés serait pret à participer financièrement au soutient de ce développement , mais de quelle façon, une license 2 ??? , avec abonnement me semblerai une solution ,abonnement moins élevé que Iracing , avec accès aux différentes mise à jour, et nouvelles voitures, si chaque passionné est d'accord pour payer un abonnement de 5 à 10 euros par mois ,sur les 7600 licensiés de NetKar, il est certain qu'un tiers au moins de ces licenciés accepteraient de le faire. la réponse est facile Kunos n'a qu'a faire un sondage pour voir , ce n'est pas les Forums qui manque!
    l'important pour tout ceux qui aime NetKar, c'est qu'il progresse positivement, et qu'il continue de garder ce que cet aspect qui nous a tous séduit quand nous l'avons essayé pour la premiere fois
    pour les autres comme le dit Stuart "The cheapskates that aren't prepared to support their hobby will be no loss to the community. I hope they'll all be happy playing their mass market arcade crap"
    ____________
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    laurent resende
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by laurent resende on Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:55 pm

    Agree with you Stuart, sponsorship does not pay the wages of employees, and maintenance costs of a company, the increase can not be NetKar evolutionary short term, and it occurs when the delay time on others will always be present.
    No doubt it is the passionate side of the Kunos team that made "progress" NetKar, but in the words of the article published on RaceDepartment is often at home on Sunday or during the holidays the team is working on developments NetKar,
    many fans would be willing to participate financially in supporting this development, but how, licensed 2?? With subscription would seem a solution, less than iRacing membership, with access to various upgrades and new cars, if every enthusiast is willing to pay a subscription of 5 to 10 euros per month, on the 7600 licensees of NetKar, it is certain at least one third of these licensees are willing to do so. the answer is easy Kunos need only do a poll to see what is not missing the Forums!
    important for everyone who loves NetKar is that progressing positively, and continues to maintain that this aspect that attracted us all when we tried it for the first time
    for others such as Stuart said "The cheapskates That Are not Prepared to Support Their hobby Will Be No To The loss community. I hope They'll all be happy playing arcade Their mass market crap"
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Carey on Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:57 pm

    Stuart Whitehead wrote:Is it not? Please point me in the direction of the sim that provides the quality of content, the 24/7 full servers and the complete online racing environment that's better than iRacing's then. The only other sim that has physics worth talking about is nKPro and I have that.
    I'm sure I've seen you say the cars feel better in nKPro? I guess it depends on what you really find important.

    Stuart Whitehead wrote:If the theoretical netKar Pro 2 decided to have some sort of subscription based model to fund it and would guarantee regular updates and content for,lets say, 1/3 of what iRacing costs would you not be interested?
    I wouldn't pay for a subscription, unless all content was included.

    Stuart Whitehead wrote:The problem here is not the so called high pricing of iRacing (always makes me laugh that one... I'm unemployed yet have no problem finding less than 50p per day to fund my hobby) It's the small sim racing community that want everything for free.
    Has Ron ever revealed how much he has spent on iR? Very Happy

    Stuart Whitehead wrote:By the time the, Shelby (?) Osella and hillclimb track are out it will be nearly 4 years since netKar Pro launched. In that time we will have had 2 new (official) tracks, 3 new cars, still have horribly unpredictable netcode and still have rubbish server controls. Hardly a lot of progress in nearly 4 years is it?
    3? The Abarth, the KS2, the Osella and the vintage. Also it depends if you include stuff like the singtel single seater (F1), which I've seen the videos of you enjoying around Spa, and you needed a license to do so. Also what about the track editor? There's a lot of talent in the community, none of whom can work with LFS or iRacing.
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by laurent resende on Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:28 pm

    I just tried the F1 LFS because I have the license but I do not used the graphics engine is of another age, the wheel is poorly managed, not to mention the difficulties in calibrating
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    Gary Munson
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Gary Munson on Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:26 pm

    At the moment iracing is in front simply because they have a business model that is working - they took a gamble 4 year development before release . No doubt, Kunos can deliver, given the resources, the same experience.
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    M Carey
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Carey on Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:44 pm

    Isn't it based on NR2003 though?
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    Gary Munson
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Gary Munson on Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:30 pm

    M Carey wrote:Isn't it based on NR2003 though?



    Not sure what you mean a few laps like this it certainly gets the blood pumping,. Nothing wrong with Williams Smile
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Carey on Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:38 pm

    iRacing.com wrote:We used the NR2003 code as a starting point, taking advantage of its greatest strengths, such as the net code, which allows full fields of drivers to race online in real time, and the replay system, which enables drivers to review their on-track performance. But every major section of the code has been substantially improved for the iRacing.com simulation, and large portions are all new.
    Dunno if it's still true, but I remember reading someone discovered it was 90 something % the same.

    iRacing.com wrote:iRacing Motorsport Simulations, LLC retained a law firm to protect its copyrights in the code base for NASCAR® 2003 computer game. After Tim Robinson, a self-proclaimed simulated racing enthusiast: (1) distributed customized applications over the Internet that automatically modified the NASCAR® 2003 game to appear to run different cars; and (2) by-passed the embedded system designed to require an original disc to be inserted in the end user's computer while running the program.
    Nice!

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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Waechter on Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:00 pm

    I think Kunos would be wrong to copy the model of iRacing, building up the same thing two times (like it would be a secomd iRacing then) won't work.
    iRacing's attention is to appeal as it would be real in any detail (look at the sort of setup values -'inches' and everything instead of more easy to undestand values-, texture shadings and so on),
    NetKar on the other side is a more I call so 'virtual-realistic thing' so far.. (look at FVA also, there are as well more like virtual-graphics) also very accurate but another appeal than iRacing.

    So NetKar is more for purists, who want very good physics and realistic and realistic behaving tracks.. but nothing that much more than this / those things.
    In the next future there will be not the same content like iRacing is trying to offer, so I doubt that so many people would be there to subscribe for 5-10 € a month for the 'NetKar-thing'.
    I think a fee of a maximum of 15€ - 20€ per year would work fine for NetKar, but only if there will be a bit more official service around (ranks, a few more cars and maybe official tracks also) and a better working net code in the future*.

    *If not... then paying a monthly or yearly or whatever fee to NetKar would be wrong I think and the old model of just paying 15 € - 35 € one time for a licence is the right thing to not lose many people in NetKar... .

    But I've no doubt Kunos knows this all as well..., -I think one day he will try to offer more things like this with a NetKar 2.0.. but it should be never this expensive as iRacing and especially all its contents should be freely acessible, because it should stay open for everyone (also regarding creating mods just for an example) ! -because this is the real nature of NetKar..., he should not / never change this general idea behind it and destroy NetKar's nature.
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    A day in the life of an iRacing subscriber

    Post by M Carey on Sat May 14, 2011 11:42 pm

    I received an email from iRacing saying sucky sucky, 10 dollar. I like sucky sucky, so I gave them 10 dollar. Seeing a QA event I discovered this was actually a race (despite the name), with the Mazda MX-5 at Okayama.

    Practice was slow & boring, as you’d expect in a car like that (I can’t race the Radical SR8 because I’m apparently too much of an invalid to handle it). Also none of the hosted racing were running content I had (well one Lime Rock server but that was also in the MX-5). The most exciting moment was when someone spun, & decided to wait until I was right next to them to spin round, taking me out.

    Qualifying. I was caught speeding exiting the pitlane & was given a drive through, but I couldn’t be bothered serving it so just re-connected. Then some northerner began swearing because someone was accelerating out of the corners too slowly for his liking, & the same guy swearing down his microphone then seconds later blocked my first flying lap. I didn't get to complete my final lap either as when the chequered flag comes out that’s it, session over.

    The race. It was advertised to start at 8pm GMT, but half an hour beforehand I was unable to enter the race. It turns out iRacing meant GMT, not BST (or equivalent). It’s an easy mistake to make, as BST/IST/WEST is currently in effect in:
    • The Canary Islands

    • The Faroe Islands

    • Ireland

    • The Channel Islands (Jersey & Guernsey)

    • The Isle of Man

    • The Maderia Islands

    • Portugal

    • & last but not least the whole f’ing United Kingdom


    & GMT
    • Iceland & north-east Greenland


    So the race was at 9PM, but why am I sitting here talking to you? Cos the sodding system crashed! Now we’re meant to be racing at quarter to, but the site’s still down for maintenance. What a waste of an evening.

    EDIT: 10PM now, any further advances? Going once, going tw...


    Last edited by M Carey on Sat May 14, 2011 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sat May 14, 2011 11:51 pm

    Nice to see that you're having fun, Marius! Smile


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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by M Carey on Sun May 15, 2011 12:25 am

    Haha, over an hour after it was meant to start they've given up. Come on Kunos, give me something to play! Razz
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by laurent resende on Sun May 15, 2011 12:33 am

    Marius is like me, you take a tour ( I took personal Laguna ) you train with Mazda ( the roaster ) when you turn in 1.42/1.43 you do a race to test the waters and the steps you miracles, then I think it's a pleasure to see the mouth!!!!! lol most guys are an incredible race and impropriety over it are not even polite! lol when you told them hello there you never respond to 95 %, then hit for 10 euros is really an incredible pleasure! lol///// French :fait comme moi Marius ,tu prends un circuit (perso j'ai pris Laguna) tu t'entraines avec la Mazda (la roaster) quand tu tournes en 1.42/1.43 tu fais une course pour tater le terrain et miracles tu les tapes ,alors crois moi c'est un plaisir de les voir faire la gueule!!!!!lol la plupart des mecs sont d'une incorrection incroyable en course et de plus il ne sont meme pas polis!!lol quand tu leur dit bonjour il ne te réponde a 95 % jamais ,alors les taper pour 10 euros c'est vraiment un incroyable plaisir!!!lol$
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    laurent resende
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by laurent resende on Sun May 15, 2011 12:55 am

    I forgot, it should just show them the victories and good lap times can walk in both directions, and iRacing NetKar Netkar / iRacing!
    After of course he must return to our preferred simulation!
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    Re: "The Alien" on nKPRO

    Post by Jeff Paul on Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:53 pm

    A friend of mine tried out 2.0. I went over there last night and we both were having some beer and trying it out. Other than it being in the massively multiplayer genre I don't see what the big deal is. The FFB doesn't even compare to the FFB in netkar. You can beat the hell out of the tires with burn outs and the temps don't get very high. The sim is pretty ho hum. Seems to me like big American business, they spend most of their money on advertising and less of their money on developing the product.

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