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    Starting with red lights: let's clarify

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    Luca Orsetti
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    Starting with red lights: is it valid?

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:49 pm

    As was the case on previous occasions, last night, in Race 2, I started for a mistake with red lights still on without being sent directly to the pits.
    I have tested in the past and I repeated after the race and I can confirm that netKar can leave a few tenths up before the green lights (or recognizes the start few meters after, I do not know).

    So I'm wondering: is valid starting with red lights still on even if netKar does not give automatic penalty?

    If you believe it is incorrect, I propose to add to the regulation a penalty for false start, so as to dispel any doubt about my good faith when I do these "abnormal" starts. Smile

    f.gek
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by f.gek on Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:54 pm

    Magari prova a partire con il rosso davanti ad un vigile... secondo me ti risponde lui se è valido oppure no Evil or Very MadTwisted Evil


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    Luca Orsetti
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:09 pm

    f.gek wrote:Magari prova a partire con il rosso davanti ad un vigile... secondo me ti risponde lui se è valido oppure no Evil or Very MadTwisted Evil

    Mettiamo un vigile sullo start!! lol!

    A parte gli scherzi, io starò attentissimo a non partire più in quel modo ma, se dovesse succedere di nuovo, chiedo di essere penalizzato...

    f.gek
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by f.gek on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:29 pm

    Non è molto difficile ... aspetti che esca il verde , e dai del gas....


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    Gianluca Bonifacio
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Gianluca Bonifacio on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:34 pm

    ...metano, propano, soporifero... se vuoi dare consigli devi essere preciso, altrimenti evita!









    asd


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    f.gek
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by f.gek on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:37 pm

    Alimentare... fagioli ... ceci etc etc


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    Gianluca Bonifacio
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Gianluca Bonifacio on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:25 pm

    ah tipo una battaglia... pronti, partenza, via! al verde tutti a dar gas! beh dai, messa così allora hai ragione... chi parte prima è avvantaggiato...


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    f.gek
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by f.gek on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:50 pm

    Ma guarda che è proprio per quello che spesso alla prima curva ci creano quei grovigli di macchine... quelli dietro svengono hahahaah


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    M Waechter
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by M Waechter on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:38 pm

    Hehe, as I watched my replay yesterday, I saw that you started quite earlier than everybody else Wink and at first I wondered how this was possible, now seeing this thread, I know that this seems to be possible in the game. You can also move away from your grid position before the red lights go out and drive a few meters without NetKar is recognizing a false start. But both of this things, especially the first one (secound one normally will not do anyone at a real/official start), should be penalized, if gained much of an advantance, -we should just start normally and all is fine Smile.

    Luca Orsetti
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:06 pm

    M Waechter wrote: -we should just start normally and all is fine Smile.

    This is the point... I always try, of course, to start normally, but also in real races can happen to do a false start (see Maldonado), and in netKar unfortunately happens to me. So next time for example, I simply take a nice post-race penalty of 20 seconds so we are all happy!

    Luca Mosca
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Luca Mosca on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:23 pm

    To wait the green is too difficult??? Shocked


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    Luca Orsetti
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:57 pm

    Non è difficile aspettare il verde!!! In tutte le gare ufficiali che ho fatto solo DUE volte sono partito così (per sbaglio, ripeto PER SBAGLIO)! Ma dato che c'è chi crede che lo faccia sempre e apposta, voglio prevenire per un'eventuale prossima volta anticipando che mi farò penalizzare di mia volontà. Spero di essere stato chiaro .

    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:39 pm

    We analyzed this case very carefully, because we wanted to be sure about how it was possible to do a jump start without getting a penalty from netKar PRO.
    The only way to do it, is to do it on purpouse getting an unfair advantage to the other drivers. For this reason we decided to disqualify for that specific race the drivers that did it. We are now checking replays to determine when this happen and we will update the results in the next days.

    We are sorry to take a final decision so late, but we wanted to be 100% sure about it.

    We hope that this will make clear to anyone that we want to have fair races for everyone.
    Starting before the green lights on purpouse is clearly something that should not be done.


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    Luca Orsetti
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:51 pm

    Ma la regola è retroattiva?

    Perchè non fare penalità con stop and go come in Formula1?

    Spesso nei champ RSR dovrebbero essere assegnate delle penalità ma non succede, e ora questa mi sembra eccessiva... Ok che sono coinvolto direttamente eheh, però ripeto, mi sembra esagerata Smile.

    In ogni caso, se la decisione è questa, accetto volentieri Wink

    Luca Orsetti
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:20 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:We analyzed this case very carefully, because we wanted to be sure about how it was possible to do a jump start without getting a penalty from netKar PRO.
    The only way to do it, is to do it on purpouse getting an unfair advantage to the other drivers. For this reason we decided to disqualify for that specific race the drivers that did it. We are now checking replays to determine when this happen and we will update the results in the next days.

    We are sorry to take a final decision so late, but we wanted to be 100% sure about it.

    We hope that this will make clear to anyone that we want to have fair races for everyone.
    Starting before the green lights on purpouse is clearly something that should not be done.

    Premettendo che scrivo in tono assolutamente pacifico Smile

    Solo ora ho tradotto bene il messaggio e Andrea, scusami se insisto, ma devo dire due parole.

    Ci tengo a precisare che io ho accettato con piacere la penalità per "falsa partenza" ma non per "falsa partenza di proposito", questo non lo farò mai perchè non è così. Sia chiaro, non mi sto lamentando dell'entità della penalità ma solo della causa.

    Ragioniamo un attimo: su quale teoria ti basi per affermare che una falsa partenza possa essere fatta esclusivamente di proposito?
    Le false partenze, per quanto ne so io, esistono nella realtà da quando esistono le corse, e non solo motoristiche: prendi come esempio Maldonado a Spa o Usain Bolt alla finale dei 100m nei mondiali di atletica 2011: secondo te l'hanno fatto apposta? Io credo proprio di no... E non capisco perchè nel virtuale non possa essere lo stesso!?

    Nel mio caso specifico, che motivo avrei avuto di partire di proposito col rosso in una gara con la 500 (l'auto che so guidare meglio) dove mi trovavo pure in pole? Non sono così ossessionato dalla vittoria da ricorrere a tali mezzucci (non per niente ritengo la gara più bella di questo campionato la seconda di Newbury, dove ho finito 4°)... E poi, perchè non farlo allora nei campionati owc e gvb dove mi sarei davvero avvantaggiato pesantemente essendo meno competitivo?
    Io il campionato l'ho vinto e potrei pure farla finita con questa storia... E invece no! Razz Finchè non crederete nella mia buona fede continuerò a rompere le scatole... L'unico modo per fermarmi sarà il ban!!! lol!

    ---------------------------------

    Translation in bad english:

    Assuming I write in a tone very peaceful Smile

    Only now I have well translated the message and Andrea, I'm sorry if I insist, but I must say a few words.

    I want to clarify that I accept with pleasure the penalty for "false start" but not for "false start on purpose", I will never do because it is not. Let me be clear, I'm not complaining about the entity of the penalty but only the cause.

    Let's think for a moment: what theory you rely on to assert that a false start can be made only on purpose?
    False starts, as far as I know, exist in reality since ther are races, and not only motorsport: take as an example Maldonado at SPA or Usain Bolt in the 100m final at the World Athletics 2011: in your opinion they have done it on purpose? I think not... I don't understand why in the virtual can't be the same!?

    In my case, why I had to start with red lights on purpose in a race with the 500 (the car I drive better) where I was also on pole? I'm not so obsessed with victory by use such cheap tricks (in fact I think the most beautiful race of the champ was the 2nd of Newbury, where I finished 4th)... And then, why not do so then in OWC and GVB leagues where I would have really benefited heavily being less competitive?
    I won the championship and I might as well put an end to this story... But no! Razz Until you don't believe in my good faith I will continue to bother... The only way to stop me will be the ban!!! lol!

    PS. I have modified the topic title Smile

    Leonardo Ratafia
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Leonardo Ratafia on Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:51 pm

    i trully believe Luca, even he started this post talking about how he discovered this "bug" but i wouldn't say he used on purpose.
    he can win the races even starting from the box every race Smile

    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:18 pm

    I agree with you, Leonardo. He can win the race without this for sure. No doubts he is one of the strongest contenders, especially on 500 Abarth.

    What we are complaining about is that we have seen this happening multiple times (few times in official races, and other times during the trainings), so we started investigating how you can do it systematically and we found the trick. Obviously this is a bug and should be fixed properly by Kunos, assuming he has time...so ...I doubt Smile
    Having a bug doesn't mean that you should use it in your favour.

    For every one the green light is the signal to start, react to it, and do your best to start as quickly as possible from there.
    Have you seen many times people starting earlier without getting the False Start penalty? I don't. If you try it you'll get caught everytime if you don't know how to do it.

    If you use any method to avoid waiting for the green lights to appear (or be ready just before they appear), that's clearly not fair.

    I know how to do it, so I could possibly start every time just in time, or even a bit before, completely ignoring the green lights.

    I could add power or grip to any of the cars, if I want, but, I wouldn't even think about doing it.


    We think Luca did it using a "trick" (not any sofwtare cheat, just to be clear). We don't think he is a cheater, but just that he did something to start just in time. In one case in this championship he was 1 second early, and in a different champ almost 2 sec early. We don't consider this correct, so that's why we penalized him.


    We will continue this conversation in PM with Luca.


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    Vincent Buccarello
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Vincent Buccarello on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:21 pm

    Add power to the car ? Did I miss something ?
    How is it possible to jump start ? I can only imagine 2 things that happens even to me
    - you are concentrated and wait for the green light and somerhing happens then like a chat message, loading textures, because somebody joins server, any other car jump starts, something like this.. But with high concentration it should not happen
    - second thing that (if you do use) the clutch slips away, happens to me sometimes that I I lose the clutch while pulling it.

    In the championship I add another fuel, 10 seconds before red lights appear I start the engine and adjust the clutch for the starting and of course the gas pedal, then I pull the clutch until the car vibrates a little bit, I stay in that position until the start, so if I do a mistake I have another seconds to go to the grid.
    And because nobody joins the server in these 10 seconds i dont understand how to do such a mistake.

    I dont want to attack luca or someone else (really!!)
    Because i think luca is able to win without the extra second but I dont understand it luca

    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:29 pm

    Vincent Buccarello wrote:Add power to the car ? Did I miss something ?
    We managed to get a new car, the Gallardo, into nk, so we can modify any physics parameter. Don't worry. We will never do that. Wink


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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:33 pm

    I almost forgot, that's why we pushed so much with Kunos to have some more checks on the server to understand if anyone is using something illegal (RSR Update that is now the public available release).


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    Giorgio Mosca
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    Re: Starting with red lights: let's clarify

    Post by Giorgio Mosca on Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:58 pm

    Hi,
    i do not want to take the defence of anyone,
    all i want to say is that, to jump start can happen.
    It happens in all motorsport races and it could happen to anyone.
    I don't think that such a good driver, like Orsetti is, needs to make little tricks to win.
    But that's just my opinion..

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