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    27 September 2012: Imola

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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:55 am

    wow Luca. Excellent lap (and looks valid to me). Your second split is amazing. -0.6 from your best. Excellent lines. You rock!!! drive


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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:17 am

    MarcoLM wrote:Penso che prima di ogni evento ufficiale sia meglio istituire un server di "Practice" con tempo illmitato piuttosto che uno con solo pochi minuti di qualifica seguito da 2 gare!Spesso questi server sono tra l'altro gestiti da amministratori che riavviano le gare saltando direttamente la qualifica e non è sempre facile trovare un buon tempo in mezzo al traffico!
    E' sicuramente importante confrontarsi con gli avversari.......(per prendere le misure), ma non sarebbe meglio istituire un server con le gare solo due/tre giorni prima dell'evento ufficiale?
    Cosa ne pensate?
    quick translation: Marco is suggesting to have a practice server instead of a server with races for the PQ.

    My personal preference would be to keep it the way it is, since I strongly believe that we don't need hotlappers for our championship but people that are aware of how to be on track together with others. Even more important at few days from the event.

    Said that, technically we don't have any problems to run 2 servers in different configurations (practice only and qual+race), although, this would mean to slit the drivers in groups and having less people on each track.

    You can have very fast laps in the race as well. Luca's best lap(the one of the video) was on his 4th lap of a race we did yesterday.
    You can definitely improve your lap time even during the race. If you are afraid of having traffic ahead, just back off, or start from the pits and you'll have free space in front of you.

    At the end prequalifications are just meant to split the groups between drivers with similar laptimes. To be in Group A a 2.02.XXX is needed at the moment.


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    Martin Slezak
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    corner cutting

    Post by Martin Slezak on Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:59 pm

    Thank you very much Luca! I realize that I brake later than you, but you are still far far faster. I will try to brake earlier and dont overdrive the car.

    Regarding to Acqua Mineralli I will do it also that way, all 4 wheels on the green extensions on the 4th gear. Only if I touch the grey concret I will then lift off. With that steep hill afterwards it is so much slower having drive only to the outside curb.

    imho it is better to have race server. It is more funny and you can learn from other drivers. Everyone can do neverending training sesion offline :-)) Few laps behind Andrea I learn more than in 100laps alone. He cut off 2s of my previous best.
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    Luca Orsetti
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:52 pm

    Martin Slezak wrote:
    Regarding to Acqua Mineralli I will do it also that way, all 4 wheels on the green extensions on the 4th gear.

    Well, normally I always go with only two wheels on the green extension. Paradoxically, then I did a mistake on that lap! lol!
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:51 pm

    VERY IMPORTANT!!! Please allocate for the race. If you are not in the the entry list you can't race.

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:Here is the entry list for the event.
    Group A: positions from 1 to 15
    Group B: positions from 16 to 30

    Remember that you need to be allocated to be part of the event, and you need to do some lap on our server. You check who is online and other drivers lap times on the Live Timing.

    Please help us out placing your allocation for the race in time, so that we can organize the race properly, setting up the servers in advance and we will not lose time during the briefing. Thanks for your help.


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    Leonardo Ratafia
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Leonardo Ratafia on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:55 pm

    i think Luca should race with ballast Very Happy
    that time is with the g27? H shifter?
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:11 pm

    I repeat this post on this page as well, so that anyone can read it.

    VERY IMPORTANT!!! Please allocate for the race. If you are not in the the entry list you can't race.

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:Here is the entry list for the event.
    Group A: positions from 1 to 15
    Group B: positions from 16 to 30

    Remember that you need to be allocated to be part of the event, and you need to do some lap on our server. You check who is online and other drivers lap times on the Live Timing.

    Please help us out placing your allocation for the race in time, so that we can organize the race properly, setting up the servers in advance and we will not lose time during the briefing. Thanks for your help.


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    Fabio Grippa
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:13 pm

    Hi all,
    I want to share my doubt about the abarth 500 behavior: there is something really strange, which is against the normal vehicle dynamic:

    1. Entering a turn without the throttle the car shows a quite big understeer, which is quite normal, nothing really strange here (I think it should be less having all the weight over the front whell axis). The wrong things come when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, which is at least strange, if not completely wrong...
    2. The maximum lateral deceleration should be reached before the tires saturation phase...the tires give you the maximum lateral acceleration with a quite small angle (called "slip angle", should be around 6-8° for a car like this, if I'm not wrong;)it means if you turn too much the steering wheel, the lateral acceleration decrease...you can feel the saturation phase by the force on your steering wheel, when it start to decrease it means you are starting to have too much slip, and the lateral deceleration decrease....with this car you can get the maximum lateral deceleration with a huge steering wheel angle, and then with a huge slip angle, which is again strange...

    What I feel is a completely wrong dynamic model on this car, which led you to drive a car like it is almost a rear wheel drive, and with irrealistic steering wheel angle....

    Do you have my same feeling, or it is just my impression?

    Thanks for your comment, greetings from Italy!
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    Luca Orsetti
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Luca Orsetti on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:41 pm

    Leonardo Ratafia wrote:that time is with the g27? H shifter?
    Yeah, I have a G27 from almost a year Smile

    Fabio Grippa wrote:Hi all,
    I want to share my doubt about the abarth 500 behavior: there is something really strange, which is against the normal vehicle dynamic:

    1. Entering a turn without the throttle the car shows a quite big understeer, which is quite normal, nothing really strange here (I think it should be less having all the weight over the front whell axis). The wrong things come when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, which is at least strange, if not completely wrong...
    2. The maximum lateral deceleration should be reached before the tires saturation phase...the tires give you the maximum lateral acceleration with a quite small angle (called "slip angle", should be around 6-8° for a car like this, if I'm not wrong;)it means if you turn too much the steering wheel, the lateral acceleration decrease...you can feel the saturation phase by the force on your steering wheel, when it start to decrease it means you are starting to have too much slip, and the lateral deceleration decrease....with this car you can get the maximum lateral deceleration with a huge steering wheel angle, and then with a huge slip angle, which is again strange...

    What I feel is a completely wrong dynamic model on this car, which led you to drive a car like it is almost a rear wheel drive, and with irrealistic steering wheel angle....

    Do you have my same feeling, or it is just my impression?

    Thanks for your comment, greetings from Italy!

    Ciao Fabio. Ti rispondo in italiano perchè in inglese non ne sono capace .

    Riguardo il punto 1, io sento quasi il contrario di quello che dici tu :s. Se entro in curva senza accelerare il posteriore si alleggerisce e viene fuori una specie di mix di sovrasterzo e sottosterzo, ma quello che subisco di più è il primo. Quando apro l'acceleratore invece, l'auto tende decisamente ad allargare e il sottosterzo si fa sentire, infatti c'è parecchio da dosare per fare una curva pulita.
    Sul punto 2 sinceramente non so cosa dire, non me ne intendo molto .

    M Waechter
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by M Waechter on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:13 pm

    Fabio Grippa wrote:...when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, ..


    Just my logical, simple thought about this: Even (also) with a front wheel powered car the car's weight goes a bit to the rear -the car lifts up at the front- when you accelerate (like with my own real car), because of the 'centrifugal forces'.. and then the less of weight on the front axis on acceleration leads to more understeer.

    Martin Slezak
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Martin Slezak on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:41 pm

    M Waechter wrote:
    Fabio Grippa wrote:...when you open the throttle, the car should go wider showing a greater understeer, being a front wheel car. But it happens the opposite, the car "close the turn", it reduce the oversteer a lot, ..


    Just my logical, simple thought about this: Even (also) with a front wheel powered car the car's weight goes a bit to the rear -the car lifts up at the front- when you accelerate (like with my own real car), because of the 'centrifugal forces'.. and then the less of weight on the front axis on acceleration leads to more understeer.

    I am sorry I cann't understand your comment. My thoughts according to real life FIAT 500 (of cours not Abarth :-)) are as follows. When you add throttle in the middle of the corner the weight goes backward and the car starts to understeer and if you go full gas front wheel starts to spin - making the understeer even more pronaunced. Here (in theory)self-locking differentionl would 100% help. At this point you can brake a little to transfer the weight to the front wheels and to lock the differential to help with a tracktion.

    But I confirm that in LFS this is the samo. In the FWD car full throttle tightens a corner.


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    Fabio Grippa
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:28 am

    Dear Martin and Marco, we are all saying the same thing...the car should go wider and wider when accelerating while turning, like it happens every days with a normal front wheel car real driving (mainly due to the fact that the front wheel are saturated in transmitting lateral force, and they can't transmit any longitudinal force anymore, then they spin and the car goes straight, like it happen when locking the front tires while turning)...The only problem is that I feel a opposite behavior with the nkpro abarth 500, and the self-locking differential can't change a lot this behavior...It is mainly clear at the "U" turn at Imola...Maybe is just my feeling...

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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by M Waechter on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:09 am

    @Martin: That's exactly like what I was saying -understeering on throttle = normal- (we all say the same, like Fabio already mentioned.. Wink), you must have had misunderstood s.th. there.
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:18 am

    guys, we will close the SkinPack tonight. If you want to have a custom skin, please upload ithere


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    Max Caputi
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Max Caputi on Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:20 pm

    Ragazzi mi è venuto un fortissimo dubbio sulla ripartizione di frenata della 500 Abarth...non vorrei che per assurdo funzionasse al contrario.

    Il Brake Bias dovrebbe essere la ripartizione di frenata e quindi - sul posteriore e + sull'anteriore ma sembra quasi che ripartendo la frenata con una percentuale più bassa e quindi più sul posteriore sia più stabile in frenata. Ho fatto varie prove, forse troppe, e non ci capisco più nulla !!

    Qualcuno ha notato questa cosa?
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:07 pm

    Si, i tasti nella configurazione di nk sono invertiti. Tanto ti esce la percentuale a video.


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    Max Caputi
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Max Caputi on Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:21 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:Si, i tasti nella configurazione di nk sono invertiti. Tanto ti esce la percentuale a video.

    Questo lo so e li ho già modificati manualmente nel controller ma io ho proprio avuto la sensazione ( a differenza di tutte le altre vetture di netkar )che una percentuale più bassa, e quindi frenata più sul posteriore, la vettura perda meno il posteriore in frenata come se fosse in realtà ripartita sull'anteriore...non so se mi sono spiegato Very Happy

    In pratica per ovviare alla perdita, eccessiva secondo me, del posteriore in staccata oltre ovviamente a lavorare molto di gas avevo messo percentuale 95-96 ( e cioè più avanti ) ma poi abbassando anche di molto la percentuale mi è venuto un forte dubbio perchè incredibilmente la vettura mi è sembrata più stabile, cosa strana ripartendo la frenata più indietro. Salvo che non mi stai clamorosamente sbagliando io sul significato di quella percentuale...
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    Fabio Grippa
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:03 pm

    Max....secondo me questa vettura e' tutta sbagliata...non mi torna nulla del comportamento, boh...faro' delle prove come dici sulla frenata ma non mi stupirebbe nulla... :-)
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    Fabio Grippa
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:12 pm

    In realta' Max mettendo il bias piu' basso la ripartizione va correttamente piu' sul posteriore, al punto di bloccare le ruote dietro per prime...
    Certo è che abbassasndo un po' il valore non perdi in stabilita', forse perche' trasferisci meno peso all'anteriore e alleggerisci meno dietro...nella realta' non succedera' mai cosi ma ripeto, il modello dinamico di questa auto non mi convince...

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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by M Waechter on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:49 pm

    PQ server seems to be down.
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    Vincent Buccarello
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Vincent Buccarello on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:57 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:To be in Group A a 2.02.XXX is needed at the moment.

    Why is 2.02.XXX needed ? I thought 1-15 are in Group A, since I am 6th with 2.03.XXX I hope I will race in Group A Very Happy

    I had no time yet to do a better time and today the server is down Sad

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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by M Waechter on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:48 pm

    Hmm, how could M Carey join the server a few minutes ago, when it's not there [he was on track a few minutes ago, but the server is still down] -ghost driver.. Wink ?
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:03 am

    The server is online and there are people running at the moment.


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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by M Waechter on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:33 am

    Ok, I could have sworn it was still down while Marius was on track, will try to improve my laptime during a few laps.
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 27 September 2012: Imola

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:08 am

    Here is the Abarth Series 2012 Skin Pack Version:1.0


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