Radiator Springs Racing

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Online Sim Racing netKar PRO


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MarcoLM
Luca Orsetti
giancarlo graziano
davide zardin
Roberto Postinghel
Simon Bevcic-batina
Maarten Steverink
gianluca gentile
Danilo Biggio
Pavel Horak
Fabio Grippa
Gianluca Bonifacio
Vincenzo Vanore
Salvatore Liotti
Andrea Lojelo
Luca Mosca
M Waechter
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    26 April 2012: Monza

    Andrea Lojelo
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:06 am

    basta fare un backup delle cartelle docs\nkpro\licences e drivers, poi eliminare la cartella docs\nkpro e istallare nuovamente. Non perdi nulla.
    Luca Mosca
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Luca Mosca Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:46 am

    liotti69 wrote:
    Andrea Lojelo wrote:IMPORTANT: all drivers in group A MUST provide a replay for their best lap.
    Drivers that will not provide the replay of a valid lap will be disqualified from group A (will race in a different group)

    We will provide more informations about how to upload the replay later on.

    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 835822_300

    vedrai come si alzeranno i tempi ora!....

    ...il mio no !!! Laughing ho tutti i replay !!!
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Pavel Horak Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:37 pm

    No corner-cutting allowed

    What's the difference between 2nd and 4th picture? I can see internal kerb extension on both pictures.
    Andrea Lojelo
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:41 pm

    Pavel Horak wrote:No corner-cutting allowed

    What's the difference between 2nd and 4th picture? I can see internal kerb extension on both pictures.
    In #2 you have a kerb extension, in #4 there is no kerb extention, just grass.
    I'll copy here the 2 pictures you mentioned:
    Andrea Lojelo wrote:Valid: internal kerb estension: the car touches the kerb
    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Valid

    Not Valid: the car is beyond the with line
    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Notvalid

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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Pavel Horak Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:36 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:
    In #2 you have a kerb extension, in #4 there is no kerb extention, just grass.
    I misunderstood term "kerb extension", I can see it now. Thanks.
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:45 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:IMPORTANT: all drivers in group A MUST provide a replay for their best lap.
    Drivers that will not provide the replay of a valid lap will be disqualified from group A (will race in a different group)

    We will provide more informations about how to upload the replay later on.

    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 835822_300

    Prequalification will be closed on Thurday at 10:00 AM, so that we will have time to review the top 15 replay.
    That is the deadline for submitting the replay via our Ticket System too.

    Drivers that will not submit the replay on time, or that will whose lap is invalid will be dropped out group A.

    Please send your lap only when it's final.
    Replay should be edited in nk to contain only the lap to be analyzed. Please include the last corner of the previous lap too. This is to ensure that you didn't take any advantages coming from somewhere else than the normal racing line to get more speed.

    Andrea Lojelo
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:00 pm

    Just to make it a bit more clear for the specific case of Monza:

    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 CornerCutting

    We expect drivers to use the rules we have in a sensible way. Rules are there to set the boundaries. We expect anyone to drive well within the boundaries.

    During the race as well, in case you cut the corner too much, you need to lift the throttle to compensate for your error.

    We expect everyone to drive in a way that "feels" right.
    The verification team will watch the replay carefully, and will penalise even in case of few cm off the boundary limit.
    This is because we expect you to drive far from them. If you have the doubt you cut too much, it's usually because you are going already too close to the limit, and this is not what we want.

    Please don't even submit laps that are against the rules above.
    If your best lap is done cutting, please write a PM to Luca Mosca, so he can remove it from the live timing.

    Thanks for your help.
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:05 am

    Personally I would suggest to regard some cm of the red-painted area on the curb extensions belonging/counting to the curb as well at this
    particular circuit especially. Bescause it is easy to get with one (front-)wheel a little bit on the red area, at edgy curbs like the left one at chicane 1 and the right one at chicane 2.
    Also all the grey (metallic) extensions of the asari chicane on the right side you can slide on very easily, when you make a small mistake at the entry of the ascari + driving quick, so I would suggest to especially not disqualify people, who get very slightly on that silver-grid for just a little moment as well.
    -For example I slided a bit at the entry of ascari at my current fastest lap (edit: not current anymore it happened at the older 1:52.603 and even worse at the 1:52.2xx -beside the track at the end of ascari at the last mentioned one, like Schumi always did there in '10 or '11-) and got on the small silver curb extension on the right side beside the curb, those things can happen very easily here and there in some of your laps at the limit.

    I fear otherwise half of the laps of the quickest guys will be disqualified, -when you drive at the limit you can get on the red area with one wheel very easily at some of your laps by 'mistake' and same for the spoken grey extension at the ascari, though it happens without any intentiion to do so.


    So I would suggest to only disqualify people, who touch the green-extension with at least one of the outside wheels. But as long as just one of the outside wheels still touches the first part of the red-areas it should be still almost 'legal' -that should be then the limit in my opinion-. If someone drives fully over the red-areas with both outside wheels it should be illegal then.
    I know all this stuff is difficult to handle [I know those minor general things can lead to endless discussions easily, but I hope it will not...],
    but keep some 'free-room' (some little more space) and lets keep the first centimeters of the red-areas as legal ones too at this track, as long as just one outside wheel fully touches it and the other one still mostly touches the real red-white curb area.

    ---

    Well after all, it's the decision of the organisers of course. I'll try to adopt my driving / the laps I do and brake more at certain points inner the chicanes in case to not drift over these certain following curbs, if the red-area
    and grey-area on the right side at the beginning and end of ascari (+ the lesmos) will striktly stay prohibited.
    Andrea Lojelo
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:20 am

    M Waechter wrote:Bescause it is easy to get with one (front-)wheel a little bit on the red are
    Marco, the rule says:
    Andrea Lojelo wrote:
    No corner-cutting allowed
    Rule9:Corner-cutting is not allowed. The rule is that drivers must have two wheels touching (in any way) or be exactly vertically above the track at any time during the lap.
    The white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not and. Where a kerb extension is present, the kerb is considered part of the track.
    A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
    Should a car leave the track for any reason, and the driver may rejoin. However, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.
    Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car will be penalized.
    as you can see from the images also, you can go with one front wheel off track (out of the curb limit). You must have always 2 wheels (usually the internal one) inside. See the Valid (almost at the limit) examples.

    The main idea is thea the black part is the track. You can cut a bit over the curb, but not that much. You shouldn't aim for the extreme limit, but you should try to make the corner in a "normal way".

    If you'll check some videos, you will see that in real life this is the way real drivers drive there. They always stay well within the curb (FIA rules are much more strict).

    In the last years they've changed curbs at Monza increasing the height of the external red curb. This is what happen if you go over it Smile
    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 33eo0pc
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:35 pm

    I'll try. The main problem is the second (right) curb at chicane two, the track isn't very wide (there) and you come easily with some understeer + slide towards the curb, which leads automatically to get over the red a little bit. Also when you drive the lap, out of the (your) cockpit it always looks like if you still hit the curb with both wheels, in replay sometimes it (the cars body) looks more far away than you expected (like always in Sims). My current 1:52.080 touches only veery slightly the curb in chicane 2 still, it is still pixel by pixel close to the real 'red-white' curb, so I hope it is valid.
    The curb is very small (thin) there at the chicane 2, so easy to get aside of it.

    In real racing they at least drive off track at the exit of ascari (in F1) sometimes, but when you don't understeer you can manage without getting too wide at the exit, probelm is that in not every lap you can manage to aviod it maybe.


    Last edited by M Waechter on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:27 pm

    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 02gvb_Monza
    Here is the schedule:
    Prequalification until Thurday 26 April 2012 at 10:00 AM.
    drivers from 1 to 15 in group A NOTE: replay of the lap needs to be submitted using our ticket system
    drivers from 16 to 30 in group B

    Thursday 26 April 2012
    21:00 (CET, UTC+1) Briefing in our Chat
    Qualification: 15 minutes. No restriction on the amount of laps
    Warmup: 5 min (waiting time before the race session)
    Race 1: 7 laps
    Warmup: 5 min (waiting time before the race session)
    Race 2: 12 laps (inverted grid)

    Races will NOT be in Full Mode.
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:13 pm

    VERY IMPORTANT
    Please make sure you download this update:netKar PRO v1.30.1727 RSR update

    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Nk_Scr_Formula1800_laguna_seca_04_22_09_57_16


    Last edited by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:31 am

    we will reset laptimes for the prequalification, since times are slower in the new release.
    We will select automatically times after the start of the new server. Yesterday's times will count.
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:56 pm

    ah, all right Smile, was just wondering what happened to the live timing laptimes (I at first thought to clean up some possible earlier cutted laps it was resetted) and I also recognized that the times might be slower now. I this the case for all cars ? (would be bad for all the v1.3 final laptimes on the rank), maybe it will 'corrected' in the final release of the update, so that timing is the same again (?). If physics changed slightly in general (seems so at the Gvb, but almost not recoginzeable for me) for all cars then it is impossible to adjust s.th. at the timing of course.

    ok, back to the track to do some better (more decent ) lap.. Smile.


    Last edited by M Waechter on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:48 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post by Andrea Lojelo Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:59 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:we will reset laptimes for the prequalification, since times are slower in the new release.
    We will select automatically times after the start of the new server. Yesterday's times will count.

    DONE.
    Live Timing updated with times set only with the new release
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Danilo Biggio Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:36 pm

    why laps are slower with the new release??
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    Post by M Waechter Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:51 pm

    seems the new update also affects the physics slightly (car(s) are slightly less bound to the track or s.th. like that).
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    Post by gianluca gentile Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:05 am

    In my humble opinion the new update does slipping a little too self, both as a lateral force is both in braking. ..... ::ehhh:: .. ... I know only if changing a little setup you can remove (at least a little) this problem or not. Thanks in advance. Ciaooooo. ::help::
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    Post by M Waechter Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:13 pm

    Don't know what you exactly meant by 'slipping', maybe it feels a little more like driving on 'slime' (s.th. like that Wink -joke-) all over, not just at braking (don't see a difference in braking compared to before, I find it even maybe slightly like 2 % easier on the brakes + turning wheel at once now).
    But I can drive the car like 100% the same as before, setup reacts the same also as before (not tried much different ones now with the update, but I guess there will be no surprises), just the laptimes are a little (a few tenth) slower
    due to that little more 'slip' I guess.
    But (as an advantage) it seems people's laptimes are more close together now with this update. Could even be, that this kind of physic with the update is now set to a even more realistic kind of way. The fastest guys were about 1,5 sec. in front (of me and others) at their pbs before the update -and I had almost no idea how they could use their car(s) to be -that- fast, now after the update it is just about 0,5 sec. by now.

    But I'll wait for Maarten and Gilles and so on, maybe they teach me s.th. different with just a bit more practice with the update and they'll be 1,0 sec.+ in front as well again with the update at the end Very Happy.
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    Post by gianluca gentile Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:58 pm

    Maybe you're right Shocked , but I think if the car glides more means that there is less grip on the wheels, perhaps fell the difference of time because it will be very strict about RSR cuts the chicane, well we'll see what will happen in the race, my only criticism was the developer update, because (if I understand correctly) we're trying for them too. Thanks for your interest. ::thumpsup::
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:16 pm

    gianluca gentile wrote:Thanks for your interest. 26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 361709


    Yeah, I'm maybe too interested in driving this sim at the moment, I should do other things (studying) Wink.

    --

    Why not testing an update even in our champ.-races, it's the same thing for everyone at our races ? Wink I guess we not test the physics (I guess the dev. team knows well by themself, what it is doing there), we just check for possible (very minor) bugs or unexpected things like that.
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:24 pm

    For some 'entertaining' only, here in this thread I updated / included now some new video-links of various (hot)laps recordings -the four new added links before the 'further replays:' begin-.
    1.) Gvb @ A1 Ring -I saved all hotlap-replays of that event after each session, so got tons of laps 20+ in total, in video are the 10 quickest of that Wink-, 2.) Vintage & Vintage Replica @ A1 Ring incl. two more laps of Gvb at Prato out of the testing on that track back then, Osella @ Imola, 3.) Vintage Replica @ Nürburgring -recorded live-, 4.) Vintage Replica @ Nordschleife -recorded live-.
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    Post by Danilo Biggio Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:51 pm

    i think that it's better for the prequalification a practice server not one where there are races and you don't make a polite lap....
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:00 pm

    the reason for having a server with races also is because we believe it's important that people don't only practice hotlaps, but also to stay closer during races.
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    26 April 2012: Monza - Page 2 Empty Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:51 am

    Danilo Biggio wrote: and you don't make a polite lap....


    You don't have always to take part at the race, just stay in the box at the starts, wait a bit until the field is half a lap far away and start / drive your hotlaps in the race sessions Wink -That's how at least I do it, to me it makes no difference if I'm in a practice/qualy session or a race session (beside that the race-sessions are a bit shorter -in case of 5 laps-). In case you are the only one, the only car in the session you can press 'next session' to get to the 16 mins. qualifying session. -We need some practice in starting from the grid, to know where to brake to the first corner and to be careful enough at the event then and check out possible overtaking lines that could happen beside the ideal-racing line and so on if you want to.

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