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    26 April 2012: Monza

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    M Waechter
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    26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter on Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:13 am


    Here is the schedule:
    Prequalification until Thurday 26 April 2012 at 10:00 AM.
    drivers from 1 to 15 in group A
    drivers from 16 to 30 in group B

    Thursday 26 April 2012
    21:00 (CET, UTC+1) Briefing in our Chat
    Qualification: 15 minutes. No restriction on the amount of laps
    Warmup: 5 min (waiting time before the race session)
    Race 1: 7 laps
    Warmup: 5 min (waiting time before the race session)
    Race 2: 12 laps (inverted grid)

    Races will NOT be in Full Mode.













    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Maybe I should not have opended up that thread, sine at the top posting there should be at first Andrea's usual information posting about the event.
    I'll delete this posting afterwards.

    Just wanted to say, that my 1m52.821 could be deleted from the list. It was one of the first laps and I missed the first chicane, though I slowed down in first sector, it still turned out around 2sec. quicker than at my normal pace at sector one. But it's also not necessary to delete it, because I guess, I'll surely beat that time in the future laps, just 1 tenth behind it by now.
    -Luca btw. looks fast there, I think I'll be not as good as at A1Ring at this track + this car.


    Last edited by M Waechter on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Luca Mosca
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Luca Mosca on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:31 am

    Wink

    u will be faster Wink


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    M Waechter
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:37 pm

    Yep, I think so -not much sense in my advice despite removing one single sector-time, so all postings so far here including this one could be deleted, to make room for more important stuff.
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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:51 am

    Guys, please, if you cut the chicane, abort your lap. Our server is in live timing and we will use the results for the prequalification of Monza event to determine the groups for the official race.

    If your lap is invalid, please write a PM to Luca Mosca or write here directly, and the time will be removed.
    This is of course creating trouble for us, because we need to spend time to clean up results.
    Please avoid cutting chicanes and getting wrong time into the systems.
    Thanks for you help.


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    Salvatore Liotti
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Salvatore Liotti on Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:48 am

    Dove si vedono i tempi aggiornati del server?
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:51 am



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    Vincenzo Vanore
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Vincenzo Vanore on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:57 pm

    Sera ragazzi, oggi facendo qualche gara qui a monza ho notato come parecchi driver, secondo il mio parere taglino alcune curve in un modo esagerato....le curve incriminate sono le seguenti: Prima Variante, Variante della roggia e l'uscita della Ascari. Durante la gara credo sia impossibile stabilire chi taglia e chi no, al tal punto di infligere una penalizzazione, una mia proposta è quella di inserire (sempre se è possibile farlo) delle gomme, come vengono usate per il tracciato di Imola.
    Grazie mille per l'attenzione
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    Salvatore Liotti
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Salvatore Liotti on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:07 am

    Vincenzo Vanore wrote:Sera ragazzi, oggi facendo qualche gara qui a monza ho notato come parecchi driver, secondo il mio parere taglino alcune curve in un modo esagerato....le curve incriminate sono le seguenti: Prima Variante, Variante della roggia e l'uscita della Ascari. Durante la gara credo sia impossibile stabilire chi taglia e chi no, al tal punto di infligere una penalizzazione, una mia proposta è quella di inserire (sempre se è possibile farlo) delle gomme, come vengono usate per il tracciato di Imola.
    Grazie mille per l'attenzione

    Sono daccordo con Vincenzo,malgrado io stesso sfrutti estremamente i cordoli...ma per fare il tempo chi non lo fa?? Chi controllerà in gara? Se si potesse risolvere cosi sarebbe perfetto! Oppure (non sono esperto di programmazione non so se sia possibile) una soluzione del tipo RACE 07 sarebbe per me l'ideale...c'è un limite già preimpostato oltre il quale si possono avere tre avvertimenti o direttamente la penalizzazione a seconda della gravità. Ribadisco,come molti sanno,si guadagna e si perde tanto a seconda di quanto si osa sui cordoli! Nella realtà in certi punti rovineresti il fondo tagliando all'estremo quindi non si fa ma nel gioco questo non succede quindi....
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:28 am

    liotti69 wrote:
    Vincenzo Vanore wrote:Sera ragazzi, oggi facendo qualche gara qui a monza ho notato come parecchi driver, secondo il mio parere taglino alcune curve in un modo esagerato....le curve incriminate sono le seguenti: Prima Variante, Variante della roggia e l'uscita della Ascari. Durante la gara credo sia impossibile stabilire chi taglia e chi no, al tal punto di infligere una penalizzazione, una mia proposta è quella di inserire (sempre se è possibile farlo) delle gomme, come vengono usate per il tracciato di Imola.
    Grazie mille per l'attenzione

    Sono daccordo con Vincenzo,malgrado io stesso sfrutti estremamente i cordoli...ma per fare il tempo chi non lo fa?? Chi controllerà in gara? Se si potesse risolvere cosi sarebbe perfetto! Oppure (non sono esperto di programmazione non so se sia possibile) una soluzione del tipo RACE 07 sarebbe per me l'ideale...c'è un limite già preimpostato oltre il quale si possono avere tre avvertimenti o direttamente la penalizzazione a seconda della gravità. Ribadisco,come molti sanno,si guadagna e si perde tanto a seconda di quanto si osa sui cordoli! Nella realtà in certi punti rovineresti il fondo tagliando all'estremo quindi non si fa ma nel gioco questo non succede quindi....

    A quick translation for everyone:
    Vincenzo and Salvatore are speaking about corner cutting at Monza, and suggestion to put barrier or other solutions to avoid cutting too much.

    When we converted Monza for netKar PRO, we thought about different solutions, including tyres barriers. At the end we opted for the current solution with small speed bumps, since from our tests, tyres barriers are actually pretty dangerous for everyone else. Especially during the first laps of a race, with the group packed, a small mistake from anyone can have huge concequences for everyone else, since the guys that does the mistake would crash into the barriers, and most likely go back towards the others on the race trajectory.

    Unfortunately nk doesn't offer any good alternative to detect drivers that cut too much.

    It comes by it self that, on a track like Monza, everyone MUST behave correctly, lifting off in case you cut.
    With the live timing we are monitoring what's going on on track, and we know what are normal lap times, so who cut is easily spotted.
    Saying that we kindly ask you NOT TO CUT, because we prefer spending our time in a better way than deliting laps from the database.

    Here is our general rule about it:

    No corner-cutting allowed
    Rule9:Corner-cutting is not allowed. The rule is that drivers must have two wheels touching (in any way) or be exactly vertically above the track at any time during the lap.
    The white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not and. Where a kerb extension is present, the kerb i is considered part of the track.
    A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
    Should a car leave the track for any reason, and the driver may rejoin. However, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.
    Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car will be penalized.

    Valid: the car touches the track


    Valid: internal kerb estension: the car touches the kerb


    Valid: external kerb estension: the car touches the kerb (limite della pista=track limit)



    Not Valid: the car is beyond the with line




    Not Valid: internal kerb extension: the car is beyond the with kerb (all on the kerb extension)


    In specific case we specify exceptions for the general rules to have a better race experience.



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    Gianluca Bonifacio
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Gianluca Bonifacio on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:23 am

    there would be a solution, but would be too penalizing in case of involuntary exit because could teleport the drivers to the box automatically... would also need a new kto, of course.. However, I'll tell the same.. Razz

    could rename the "cutting" sectors with names other than those recognized by nk, in order to create a hole .. if you go over there, the car sinks a little bit and then jump back on...

    obviously the hole is bigger, there are bigger chances to crash ... you can try to create holes in the anticuts...


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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:39 am

    some more possibilities:





    this is specifically created for Gek


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    Gianluca Bonifacio
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Gianluca Bonifacio on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:49 am

    why not?! asd


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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:40 am

    IMPORTANT: all drivers in group A MUST provide a replay for their best lap.
    Drivers that will not provide the replay of a valid lap will be disqualified from group A (will race in a different group)

    We will provide more informations about how to upload the replay later on.



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    Salvatore Liotti
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Salvatore Liotti on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:47 am

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:IMPORTANT: all drivers in group A MUST provide a replay for their best lap.
    Drivers that will not provide the replay of a valid lap will be disqualified from group A (will race in a different group)

    We will provide more informations about how to upload the replay later on.


    vedrai come si alzeranno i tempi ora!....
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    Fabio Grippa
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Fabio Grippa on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:01 am

    Andrea....a me non funziona il replay...cavoli...come faccio?

    Mi sa che devo reinstallare tutto...mi si incasina qualcosa? Tipo perdite licenze e cosi o va via tutto liscio? Se ti fornissi un jpeg del log del ranking dove non si registrano cut potrebbe andare?

    Cmq provero' prima a risolvere il problema dei replay e via...
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:06 am

    basta fare un backup delle cartelle docs\nkpro\licences e drivers, poi eliminare la cartella docs\nkpro e istallare nuovamente. Non perdi nulla.


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    Luca Mosca
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Luca Mosca on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:46 am

    liotti69 wrote:
    Andrea Lojelo wrote:IMPORTANT: all drivers in group A MUST provide a replay for their best lap.
    Drivers that will not provide the replay of a valid lap will be disqualified from group A (will race in a different group)

    We will provide more informations about how to upload the replay later on.


    vedrai come si alzeranno i tempi ora!....

    ...il mio no !!! Laughing ho tutti i replay !!!


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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Pavel Horak on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:37 pm

    No corner-cutting allowed

    What's the difference between 2nd and 4th picture? I can see internal kerb extension on both pictures.
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:41 pm

    Pavel Horak wrote:No corner-cutting allowed

    What's the difference between 2nd and 4th picture? I can see internal kerb extension on both pictures.
    In #2 you have a kerb extension, in #4 there is no kerb extention, just grass.
    I'll copy here the 2 pictures you mentioned:
    Andrea Lojelo wrote:Valid: internal kerb estension: the car touches the kerb


    Not Valid: the car is beyond the with line




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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Pavel Horak on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:36 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:
    In #2 you have a kerb extension, in #4 there is no kerb extention, just grass.
    I misunderstood term "kerb extension", I can see it now. Thanks.
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:45 pm

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:IMPORTANT: all drivers in group A MUST provide a replay for their best lap.
    Drivers that will not provide the replay of a valid lap will be disqualified from group A (will race in a different group)

    We will provide more informations about how to upload the replay later on.


    Prequalification will be closed on Thurday at 10:00 AM, so that we will have time to review the top 15 replay.
    That is the deadline for submitting the replay via our Ticket System too.

    Drivers that will not submit the replay on time, or that will whose lap is invalid will be dropped out group A.

    Please send your lap only when it's final.
    Replay should be edited in nk to contain only the lap to be analyzed. Please include the last corner of the previous lap too. This is to ensure that you didn't take any advantages coming from somewhere else than the normal racing line to get more speed.



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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:00 pm

    Just to make it a bit more clear for the specific case of Monza:



    We expect drivers to use the rules we have in a sensible way. Rules are there to set the boundaries. We expect anyone to drive well within the boundaries.

    During the race as well, in case you cut the corner too much, you need to lift the throttle to compensate for your error.

    We expect everyone to drive in a way that "feels" right.
    The verification team will watch the replay carefully, and will penalise even in case of few cm off the boundary limit.
    This is because we expect you to drive far from them. If you have the doubt you cut too much, it's usually because you are going already too close to the limit, and this is not what we want.

    Please don't even submit laps that are against the rules above.
    If your best lap is done cutting, please write a PM to Luca Mosca, so he can remove it from the live timing.

    Thanks for your help.


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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:05 am

    Personally I would suggest to regard some cm of the red-painted area on the curb extensions belonging/counting to the curb as well at this
    particular circuit especially. Bescause it is easy to get with one (front-)wheel a little bit on the red area, at edgy curbs like the left one at chicane 1 and the right one at chicane 2.
    Also all the grey (metallic) extensions of the asari chicane on the right side you can slide on very easily, when you make a small mistake at the entry of the ascari + driving quick, so I would suggest to especially not disqualify people, who get very slightly on that silver-grid for just a little moment as well.
    -For example I slided a bit at the entry of ascari at my current fastest lap (edit: not current anymore it happened at the older 1:52.603 and even worse at the 1:52.2xx -beside the track at the end of ascari at the last mentioned one, like Schumi always did there in '10 or '11-) and got on the small silver curb extension on the right side beside the curb, those things can happen very easily here and there in some of your laps at the limit.

    I fear otherwise half of the laps of the quickest guys will be disqualified, -when you drive at the limit you can get on the red area with one wheel very easily at some of your laps by 'mistake' and same for the spoken grey extension at the ascari, though it happens without any intentiion to do so.


    So I would suggest to only disqualify people, who touch the green-extension with at least one of the outside wheels. But as long as just one of the outside wheels still touches the first part of the red-areas it should be still almost 'legal' -that should be then the limit in my opinion-. If someone drives fully over the red-areas with both outside wheels it should be illegal then.
    I know all this stuff is difficult to handle [I know those minor general things can lead to endless discussions easily, but I hope it will not...],
    but keep some 'free-room' (some little more space) and lets keep the first centimeters of the red-areas as legal ones too at this track, as long as just one outside wheel fully touches it and the other one still mostly touches the real red-white curb area.

    ---

    Well after all, it's the decision of the organisers of course. I'll try to adopt my driving / the laps I do and brake more at certain points inner the chicanes in case to not drift over these certain following curbs, if the red-area
    and grey-area on the right side at the beginning and end of ascari (+ the lesmos) will striktly stay prohibited.
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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:20 am

    M Waechter wrote:Bescause it is easy to get with one (front-)wheel a little bit on the red are
    Marco, the rule says:
    Andrea Lojelo wrote:
    No corner-cutting allowed
    Rule9:Corner-cutting is not allowed. The rule is that drivers must have two wheels touching (in any way) or be exactly vertically above the track at any time during the lap.
    The white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not and. Where a kerb extension is present, the kerb is considered part of the track.
    A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
    Should a car leave the track for any reason, and the driver may rejoin. However, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.
    Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car will be penalized.
    as you can see from the images also, you can go with one front wheel off track (out of the curb limit). You must have always 2 wheels (usually the internal one) inside. See the Valid (almost at the limit) examples.

    The main idea is thea the black part is the track. You can cut a bit over the curb, but not that much. You shouldn't aim for the extreme limit, but you should try to make the corner in a "normal way".

    If you'll check some videos, you will see that in real life this is the way real drivers drive there. They always stay well within the curb (FIA rules are much more strict).

    In the last years they've changed curbs at Monza increasing the height of the external red curb. This is what happen if you go over it Smile


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    Re: 26 April 2012: Monza

    Post by M Waechter on Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:35 pm

    I'll try. The main problem is the second (right) curb at chicane two, the track isn't very wide (there) and you come easily with some understeer + slide towards the curb, which leads automatically to get over the red a little bit. Also when you drive the lap, out of the (your) cockpit it always looks like if you still hit the curb with both wheels, in replay sometimes it (the cars body) looks more far away than you expected (like always in Sims). My current 1:52.080 touches only veery slightly the curb in chicane 2 still, it is still pixel by pixel close to the real 'red-white' curb, so I hope it is valid.
    The curb is very small (thin) there at the chicane 2, so easy to get aside of it.

    In real racing they at least drive off track at the exit of ascari (in F1) sometimes, but when you don't understeer you can manage without getting too wide at the exit, probelm is that in not every lap you can manage to aviod it maybe.


    Last edited by M Waechter on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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