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    30 Sep 09: Crema

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    Andrea Lojelo
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    30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:54 pm

    We will have two races on Crema track on two different layout:

    21:00 CHAT
    Race1: Crema Sector1
    Qual: 15 min
    Race: 10 Laps

    CHAT
    Race2: Crema Sector2
    Qual: 15 min
    Race: 25 Laps

    Server password in the Control Center in GPCOS.


    You can modify your PITBOARD changing your tracks\crema\server\nkrefs.ini using those values
    [PITBOARD]
    POS=15.000000, 0.000000, -35.000000


    Last edited by Andrea Lojelo on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:11 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:16 am

    The most of you knows already, but just to be sure, Sector2 is on the right, as shown in the picture!!!
    So for the first race we will go straight (Sector1), and on the second race we will go on the right (Sector2)!



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    Mitja Bonca
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Mitja Bonca on Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:03 am

    Just curious... and how we will know no one is going to cheat for the 2nd race?

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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Mauro Delegà on Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:28 am

    good question!


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    fortunato catalano
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by fortunato catalano on Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:54 am

    It's really! It's impossible know in real-time, necessary review the replay... for example yesterday night during the test at crema sector2, 2 driver in teh race run lap1 in sector1 (we have a conferm because the laptime was very strong!)

    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:03 am

    Taken from the Track Rules:
    GENERAL RULES:
    This is a gentlemen championship, so we expect that everyone will be the controller of him self.

    Unfortunately there is no way to have a barrier over there!
    I expect that common sense rules will be applied by everyone. Races are not fun if we don't respect each others.

    For example, if you brake too late at the chicane just before the Sector1-Sector2 sign, I expect that, if you have to cut the chicane for not smashing you car into the barriers, then you will not try to take this situation as an advantage for you to gain some time! So you will slow down a bit, and in case you are battling with somebody you will give him road. This is a common sense, in my opinion. We will be battling together for all the season, so better to do it in a clean environment.


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by fortunato catalano on Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:26 am

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:Taken from the Track Rules:
    GENERAL RULES:
    This is a gentlemen championship, so we expect that everyone will be the controller of him self.

    Unfortunately there is no way to have a barrier over there!
    I expect that common sense rules will be applied by everyone. Races are not fun if we don't respect each others.

    For example, if you brake too late at the chicane just before the Sector1-Sector2 sign, I expect that, if you have to cut the chicane for not smashing you car into the barriers, then you will not try to take this situation as an advantage for you to gain some time! So you will slow down a bit, and in case you are battling with somebody you will give him road. This is a common sense, in my opinion. We will be battling together for all the season, so better to do it in a clean environment.

    That's true

    I think that in this championship there is great loyalty to the track, and I think there isn't a desire to ruin the atmosphere with this cheat.

    fortunato catalano
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by fortunato catalano on Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:52 pm

    Qui devo per forza parlare italiano altrimenti non so spiegarmi....

    Andrea, ho notato che molti piloti evitano completamente 3 cambi di direzione a crema (alla esse dopo la prima curva, alla chicane prima del "bivio" dei settori e nella esse dove si "riuniscono" i settori) queste zone sono guardacaso fatte in sintetico verde.

    Mi chiedo, in gara è possibile tagliarle completamente come fanno in molti oppure si incorre in delle sanzioni post-gara?

    giancarlo graziano
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by giancarlo graziano on Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:36 pm

    Fortunato Catalano wrote:Qui devo per forza parlare italiano altrimenti non so spiegarmi....

    Andrea, ho notato che molti piloti evitano completamente 3 cambi di direzione a crema (alla esse dopo la prima curva, alla chicane prima del "bivio" dei settori e nella esse dove si "riuniscono" i settori) queste zone sono guardacaso fatte in sintetico verde.

    Mi chiedo, in gara è possibile tagliarle completamente come fanno in molti oppure si incorre in delle sanzioni post-gara?
    ..penso che il sintetico sia parte del cordolo..oppure pista..infatti non puoi salirci con tutte e due le ruote e quindi fare un fuori pista o taglio radicale.....hai solo la possibilita di chidere la traiettoria sul cordolo allungato di sintetico ..per questo ci sono le bariere ..che comunque non ti permettono di "tagliare" completamente la gicane ...anche a monaco..dopo il tunnel la chicane anche se non in sintetico il cordolo e allungato ..con bariere finali ed e consentito comunque prendere la traiettoria migliore...se esageri sbatti..spa e un altro esempio di bariere in chicane con cordoli allungati...
    queste la mia opinione..attendi la risposta di Andrea in maniera ufficiale...


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:40 pm

    No corner-cutting allowed
    Corner-cutting is not allowed. The rule is that drivers must have two wheels touching (in any way) or be exactly vertically above the track at any time during the lap. The track consists of the tarmac between the white lines, the white lines itself, the regular (!) curbs. Curb-extensions (like green or grey extensions to be seen at for example A-1 Ring, Imola, Suzuka, Magny-Cours or Silverstone) do not belong to the track.
    Exceptions to this general rule will be specified from time to time.
    If you will cut the corner more then 3 times, you will self assign a Drive Through.

    VALID


    NOT VALID


    At the chicane before the sector1-sector2 sign, there is no problem since the walls are there.
    This has to be considered an exception of the general rule, since the wall will prevent anyway to cut too much.
    VALID


    Last edited by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:06 pm; edited 3 times in total


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    giancarlo graziano
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by giancarlo graziano on Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:55 pm

    I was wrong....sorry
    Thanks for the No corner-cutting allowed rules. :oops: :oops:


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by fortunato catalano on Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:19 pm

    Grazie per le risposte! .......che bello ho fatto una domanda intelligente!

    Andrea Lojelo
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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:19 pm

    Ottima domanda Fortunato! Grazie per aver sollevato il problema. Aggiungeremo alle regole ufficiali!


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Mitja Bonca on Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:44 am

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:No corner-cutting allowed
    Corner-cutting is not allowed. The rule is that drivers must have two wheels touching (in any way) or be exactly vertically above the track at any time during the lap. The track consists of the tarmac between the white lines, the white lines itself, the regular (!) curbs. Curb-extensions (like green or grey extensions to be seen at for example A-1 Ring, Imola, Suzuka, Magny-Cours or Silverstone) do not belong to the track.
    What about at the Snetterton track with the curb extention out of the 2nd corner for example? It`s the same thing (green groundwork) as at Crema. In gpchampionship.com league we consider that as apart of the track, because it is intentionally build. For me, the same thing is at Crema. Then why the track has those "run outs" areas? If you ask me, those green groundworks at Crema ARE part of the track. Just my opinion.

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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:07 am

    The big difference with Snetterton curb extention is that in that case is on the corner exit, so can't be consider a corner-cutting. What we do in GPC, where I'm one of the race directors, is that in specific case we specify exceptions for the general rules to have a better race experience.
    This is not the case, I would say, because going completely on the green area means, in my opinion cutting completely the corner. Why having a piece of tarmac on the inside, otherwise? who is ever going to use it?

    As you know it's a very slippery topic, and, even in GPC we are discussing about what would be the best approach.
    I think that as long is clear for everyone, and everyone will follow the same rule, no matter if correct or not, there will be no problems at all!

    Anyway, I copied that rule directly from GPC (knockout tournament's rules)!!!

    Jaap on GPC wrote:
    Sometimes going wide can have a lot of advantage, too. Same with the outside of T2 on Snetterton. There's an obvious white line there.

    However, I think that if you have to stay inside the white lines in that corner on Snetterton just kills the racing experience.

    In the end, simracing it not about learning tricks and staying inside white lines. It's about racing. Racing is not about tricks, but to race a car as hard and fast as possible, right there on the limit.

    However, it is important to have clear rules and enforce them in a way which is clear and the same for everyone. This is key issue in order to have a credible and fair racing championship.

    That's why we should focus on having clear rules and have an open mind towards adjusting rules for specific situations on specific tracks in case it is needed for the sake of the racing experience.

    In any case in which the rule are not adjusted for a specific case, the basic rule applies. That way, everyone is able to know exactly what rule applies when


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by fortunato catalano on Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:17 am

    Nel caso dovessero verificarsi questi corner-cutting, come si agirà?

    Ci saranno dei richiami ufficiali, si farà come in F1/GP2 dove dopo 3 tagli si subisce un DT o si subiranno sanzioni post-gara visionando i replay?

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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:47 am

    Corner cutting penalties:
    as usual the the general rule will be applied:
    GENERAL RULES:
    This is a gentlemen championship, so we expect that everyone will be the controller of him self. If you violate track rules, you will self assing your penalty

    If you will cut the corner more then 3 times, you will self assign a Drive Through.

    In case you notice that some other driver is not following any of the track rules you can open a CID (or if you really want to be anonymous you can send me a PM).
    The Race Directors will not check any replay unless somebody will request a second opinion.


    Last edited by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:54 am; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Mitja Bonca on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:49 am

    I have to agree with you Andrea about corner cutting rule here, thanks to your good explanation.btw, about the 2nd chicane at Crema, as I understood from  your 3rd picture explanation, it is possible to cut the chicane with going completely (with all 4 wheels) on the green groundwork, becuase there are those concrete barriers anyway, right?

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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Mitja Bonca on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:52 am

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:
    GENERAL RULES:
    This is a gentlemen championship, so we expect that everyone will be the controller of him self.

    If you will cut the corner more then 3 times, you will self assign a Drive Through.
    I hope everyone will be fair and consiter that! I know I will.

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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:54 am

    So far I haven't seen any CID, but some people complaining in chat.

    We will not accept any more flames or aggressive or offensive speaking in chat after the races.
    Usually everyone is angry after an accident, so take your time, watch the replay and if you think it's right, open a CID.

    We introduced CIDs to discuss about problems on track, and we strongly encourage you to use them.


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:58 am

    Mitja Bonca wrote:I have to agree with you Andrea about corner cutting rule here, thanks to your good explanation.btw, about the 2nd chicane at Crema, as I understood from  your 3rd picture explanation, it is possible to cut the chicane with going completely (with all 4 wheels) on the green groundwork, becuase there are those concrete barriers anyway, right?
    yes...as I wrote:
    At the chicane before the sector1-sector2 sign, there is no problem since the walls are there.

    This is an example of an exception of the general rule used in a flexible way

    I made a better picture!!! from the previous one it seemed to be that it's not allowed!

    We suggest anyway for your own and other contestants's safety not to be too aggressive. In full mode a small touch, especially with this car, is fatal!


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by fortunato catalano on Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:33 am

    Andrea, per cortesia potresti postare o al limite indicarmi i valori del file REF di crema?
    Perchè abbiamo invano cercato di provare ieri su un server privato, quando si collegava il secondo pilota lo posizionava di traverso nel box bloccando sia me che il mio compagno....
    Visto che per Laguna seca hai modificato quel file per spostare la pit-board, pensavo che sempre nello stesso file ci siano le impostazioni per il posizionamento box......

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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Andrea Lojelo on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:02 am

    Puoi provare con questo pacchetto creato dai MDC.
    Noi usiamo lato server un altro file fatto da me prima ma mai rilasciato, ma penso che sia piu' o meno lo stesso!

    Per il pitboard che e' l'unico settaggio locale (le posizioni e griglia vengono assegnate dal server) io ho
    [PITBOARD]
    POS=15.000000, 0.000000, -35.000000

    MDC hanno messo invece
    [PITBOARD]
    POS=31.898872, -0.212486, -201.906845
    ROT=0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000
    vedi tu con quale valore ti trovi meglio.


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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by fortunato catalano on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:24 am

    Andrea Lojelo wrote:Puoi provare con questo pacchetto creato dai MDC.
    Noi usiamo lato server un altro file fatto da me prima ma mai rilasciato, ma penso che sia piu' o meno lo stesso!

    Per il pitboard che e' l'unico settaggio locale (le posizioni e griglia vengono assegnate dal server) io ho
    [PITBOARD]
    POS=15.000000, 0.000000, -35.000000

    MDC hanno messo invece
    [PITBOARD]
    POS=31.898872, -0.212486, -201.906845
    ROT=0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000
    vedi tu con quale valore ti trovi meglio.
    Grazie!!!
    Appena esco dal lavoro provo!

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    Re: 30 Sep 09: Crema

    Post by Mitja Bonca on Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:37 pm

    Can I ask where are the pits at Crema for online race? If I`m honest, I`ve never raced there online.

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